Summary of Life Events

Victor Low is a first-generational Chinese Malaysian who moved to the US in 2004 for business school. He graduated with an MBA in 2006 and has worked in the technology industry since. He opened Serai, a Malaysian restaurant, in Dec 2015, and Kapitan, a Peranakan restaurant, in Dec 2020. He currently resides in Chicago with his wife and children.

Interviewer: Qing Yang

“Who is an American?

During the interview, I asked Victor on multiple occasions if he considers himself an American (or Malaysian-American/Chinese-American). Each time, Victor insisted that he was a Malaysian, and more specifically Chinese Malaysian. This was extremely surprising to me. For one, Victor stressed the importance of “blending in” and “venturing out” when recounting his time in graduate school. More importantly, I assumed that his (extensive) experiences studying, living, and establishing his family/businesses in the US would allow him to see himself as an American. Still, Victor’s self-identification is perhaps not all too unfamiliar with first-generation immigrants. The attachment to one’s place of birth, or “roots”, is likely a universal experience amongst Asian- Americans. In a recent Marvel movie (Shangchi), Katy (Awkwafina’s character) ‘reminds’ her mother that “you’re American, Mom! Don’t forget”. In a similar way, I found myself superimposing the identity of ‘American’ onto Victor (in part, to justify the value of the interview), who appears to me has forgotten/abandoned his stake in “Americanness”.

If Victor does not see himself as an American, how does he view himself in the context of the larger American society? With maybe the slightest bit of indignance, Victor maintains that he is a “foreigner” in the US society. When pushed further, he extends the category of “foreigners” to include Asians born in the United States. This is, according to Victor, a result of fundamental differences in “features” (physical attributes) which are “not subtle” and “very unique”. It is easy at this juncture to then project that Victor subscribes to the view that Americans are/should be White (literally and figuratively in terms of Whiteness). Yet, I do not think this was what Victor intended. Upon admission of his “foreignness”, Victor immediately reminisces, somewhat idealistically, about the purported state of racial harmony in Asia. In his account of Malaysia/Singapore, people are not cognizant of the concept of “foreignness”. He claims that there is no distinction between foreigners and locals there (“They can’t tell the difference”), or at least one based on physical attributes related to race. In other words, Victor’s self-identified foreignness stems not from an imagined model American (White). Instead, it emerges from the observation/fact(?) that Americans are relatively more race-sensitive, more conscious of the selfothers dynamics, than people in Asia (“we don’t even think about that”). This sensitivity to differences, accompanied by less than socially appropriate manners to bring it up, constantly reinforces Victor’s perception of foreignness in himself.

Given that Victor does not currently see himself as an American, I was curious if he thinks such an identification would change in the future. Again, the response is in the negative (“not likely”). By asking the question itself, I was assuming a theory of assimilation rooted in graded membership, where it is possible to move from “foreigner” to “resident” to “local”. Here, Victor distinguishes between Americans and non-Americans based on culture. Because he is not “truly assimilated into the American culture”, he is thus not an American. Interestingly, Victor brings up the nationality/ethnicity of his wife (Malaysian) as a compounding factor to his un-Americanness. Victor posits that if his wife had been American, it would have been possible for him to identify as an American. In the end, Victor feels that there is nothing to link him to American culture. To Victor, a significant component of culture lies in the “American family traditions”, which he cannot access absent marrying an American. Besides family composition, Victor sees age as another barrier to his assimilation. As he grew up and spent his formative years in Malaysia, Victor sees his “mindset, principles and characters” as “more or less formed”. In sum, assimilation only works for the young. Such an explanation offers great explanatory powers to the aforementioned identity-fixedness phenomenon amongst first generational immigrants . (I cannot help but think of the young Dekasegi-shosei / Pensionados / Chinese Educational Mission students who came to the US and remained categorically ‘loyal’ to their native land.)

To elicit what exactly Victor is referring to with terms such as “American culture”, I asserted that Victor is an American by the simple fact that he has spent the greater part of his life in the US (studying, living, having a family). By extension, his principles and values are part of the “American culture” he claims to lack. In response, Victor concedes that he is uncertain about the definition of American culture or what it means to be American. Because of this uncertainty, he is hesitant to label himself as such. Again, such a sentiment is potentially quite representative of many immigrants who feel ‘unqualified’ to be recognized as an American if they cannot verbalize what the identity entails in concrete terms.

As a corollary, for those who can verbalize those terms clearly, recognized by others as American? In many instances, Asian-Americans (especially second and third generations) are confident of their claim to supposed Americanness because of their upbringing and familiarity with the amorphous “American culture”. Perhaps, there is no alternative for them (Victor: “For my kid, he has no choice. He’s born here”). Yet, they are nonetheless barraged by questions of where they are really from. The role of Whiteness in the existing conceptualization of Americanness must be acknowledged. While dispiriting, justifications for Americanness based on culture may be only a mask for underlying insecurities about the changing racial makeup of America.

Towards the end of the interview, Victor describes his vision of the US in the future. In the future, race remains irrelevant as a marker for personal identity. In the spirit of the melting pot analogy, Victor believes that Americanness will “become its own” and that “you can no longer dissect where these influences come from”. The term ‘American’ will envelop all other markers for race and ethnicity. While Victor admits that such a view is idealistic, he is convinced that such a scenario is necessary for racial harmony. He often invokes Singapore as evidence for the possibility for such a scenario, where race is not relevant in decision making, whether for a job or presidency. While I would like for that to be true, there is much progress to be made towards a race-blind society in Singapore. There have been numerous instances of race-based discriminatory practices cloaked in terms of language requirements (‘We’re hiring Mandarin-speaking employees only’). Our presidential electoral system makes it clear that race remains a highly relevant criterion (a presidential election will be reserved for a racial community in Singapore if no one from that community has been President for any of the five most recent terms of office of the President). Over the last 50 years, the Singapore government has enacted some of the most far-reaching social policies in history with the explicit goal of fostering racial harmony and interracial understanding (read: social engineering). Yet, racial issues remain a contentious topic in Singapore even today. Contrary to what Victor has said, I have seen many Singaporeans, especially younger generations, becoming more conscious of their racial identity. For instance, I have seen more people introduce themselves as X-Singapore (X = Chinese, Malay, Indian, etc.) instead of Singaporean alone. Regrettably, I am skeptical of Victor’s vision of the US, where people are no longer differentiated based on race.

Ultimately, who is an American? I left the interview with Victor feeling at once confused and somewhat hopeful. Victor insists that he is not an American. But, he also recounts his contributions to his ‘community’ when he offered free meals to the local community during the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. He says:

“End of the day, that’s what Asian hospitality is all about, right? We take care of each other, whether Asian or not. We take care of our own people. So that brought us around and it’s spreading good karma around the world.”

When asked how he reconciled being both a “foreigner” and a part of the ‘community’, he says:

“as you blend in as well, they might still treat you differently, but you are still part of the family. … you are still a bit different from them. You’re not local. But with a smaller population, you are actually part of the community, you are like family to them.”

So maybe some acquiescence is in place. Concepts such as “American” and “Asian-American” are often heavy, loaded, and too general to dissect so clearly. Perhaps, one will never find a satisfactory or acceptable answer to “who is an American”. But Victor has demonstrated that he is a part of the community with his actions. I am confident the people who benefitted from his acts of kindness did not care if Victor was “American” enough for them.”

Speaker 1 [00:00:01] OK. We started. So keep us a little bit about your childhood and experiences growing up in that age.

Speaker 2 [00:00:14] So I'm from Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. I am first gen Malaysia. My dad was an immigrant from China, my mum, because he grew up in Penang, and then he met in Kiev, Kuala Lumpur. So I come from a pretty large immigrant family. So Friedgen over there. Everybody is figuring out everything. And then just my immediate family from my father's side, we we're about 100 000 people. So we got a relatively large family. I went to school in Malaysia, went to school in Kiev and then did my bachelors in Malaysia. I spoke back in 97 during the economy downturn and people couldn't afford to go overseas. Then in 2004, I came over to the U.S. to do my master's, my MBA in Pennsylvania, in Pittsburgh. Yeah. And, the decision to stay in Chicago, so I graduated in Pennsylvania in 2006 and now looking for a job. So happened there was a job opening out here in Chicago. So for us, because we are all foreigners, so every state doesn't matter, we go back. But you are aware whether Trump is aware of it. Immigration statuses. So, so happens. Chicago had an opening that came over and got a job and been here since then been back to Singapore between 2011 and 2014. I was working in Singapore and then I came back after 2014 as well.

Speaker 1 [00:01:53] Can you just talk about the first impressions of the U.S.,

Speaker 2 [00:01:56] so coming to us? It's a bit different for me. It didn't feel out of place. I never felt homesick. It felt right. Never really fit that in in Asia because it wasn't a follow up Asian culture. You're brought up as you are seen but not heard. So that just sat with me because I like to. I'm very inquisitive. I love to ask questions about things at all, and my personality is very upfront. You don't know something you shouldn't ask Westerners. Go figuring on your own right. You done that. Then you were. Why not just ask someone easier and you get more perspective that doesn't sit well with an Asian culture, right? And then so what? For a few years in Asia, I came over here and it fit in very well. People are afraid they were more direct. There is no keeping up with the Joneses as much compared to Asia, whereby what? How are you driving? How much are you winking? And everyone's booking from nine a.m. to nine p.m. or even later? Over here, that's a black balance that still is today, and opportunities are dead in terms of going out there to look for things. You do run into some issues whereby you shoot that differently when people see you. And I spoke to other Asian Americans as well who were born here. Second gen is the same thing for them to go into. Public places are different depending on which city or state you're in. People look at you differently, even though you tell them, Hey, I never been to Asia, I grew up here. These are all I know. You said you're different and you still get a sense. It's a bit awkward. And the stereotypical Asian, the more modern Asian, right good and have good Indians, and you keep your head down so that you don't step. We so even doing college, we were always very involved. We had a Malaysian organization for trying to educate Malaysians like you don't know if you are police. So how do you plan it? How the school does the onboarding, you know, so the icebreaker. But apart from that, we are China and you went through that and we kept having students venture out. Make sure the locals get to know that every state has different cultures and every people is different, right? So college is the best place to get a mixing pot of different people. So you should encourage people to go, talk to people, learn your culture and your food, and there's a whole entourage. Then you learn to appreciate your own culture, right? You realize you have things that they don't. Every family is different, so truly as a different family, not so

different ethnicities or race. But that was definitely a barrier to women looking for a job. Our accent, we grew up with that and we don't realize that back in Asia, but we hear something and also the culture, the work habits. How do you do one on ones? How do you go to your appraiser raised us? How do you go to interview? Right? Interviews Yeah. It's more of a culture fit, less so on a technicality. Western Asia, it's about your capability. How much you can do over here is about how can the job contribute to your own growth? So a lot agents are not used to that. It becomes more of a Q&A interview rather than talking about your salvia aspiration and all. So we have run multiple organizations doing interviews for Asian students just to introduce them to Delahaye. Just a different playing field. How you do your regimens different looking for internship? So that was our first impression. Coming here is a whole different playground all together, and we had to learn to adapt to that.

Speaker 1 [00:05:25] Thank you for that, say one culture shock that really surprised us.

Speaker 2 [00:05:32] So that is the culture shock. There's also the reality of things of what we saw of movies and TV. Yeah. So the main culture shock for us was basically the the exposure of Americans to Asian culture. So they know about a Thai food, they know about sushi, but only until recent years they were. They knew what was the ramen unit boom in a few years. But I mean, there's always been a thing for decades. They do not know about Malaysian food. Hey, Mozart and no one know where Malaysia is right. And then they tried to associate that food of Singapore, Malaysia with the Thai and Chinese, which is different. So I'm just learning Chinese food all work. It is a whole new take the West Coast in Asia.

There's no such Chinese food, right? So there was one day and then in terms of culture shock from what I expected about you, but you grew up watching it movies. Americans don't always go up. That's not always parties. There are some, but it's not the case. Not everybody is extroverts. There are a lot of insurance isn't happy that every day is not a thing. If anything, they have more Chinese to go to and it goes. And then Americans don't travel as much. We were brought up that the Americans thinking are very full when you're very outgoing, you know, and then you realize that a lot. Because they don't want the passport. Yeah, but we are Asian, the first thing that we qualify, we get an old passport when they go overseas. When you travel for a holiday, Americans don't do that. They don't like to trip a lot, then don't travel. Those who travel go much further and live abroad. But there's a larger population of them. They are very close minded. And that was a culture shock that, oh, Americans are so forward. They are so open minded. Only a minority of them are open minded, MMAjunkie identified. You very close, made it so there was no way you are right. So then so there was a big culture sufferers as well. Huh. Like, we are more exposed to cultures around the world. So we know about Indian culture, Chinese, American and British or whatever. We know the differences. Whereas Americans, they don't see that they see one culture as one whole thing. And that's it. So that was a bit of eye opening for us as well.

Speaker 1 [00:07:45] But you know, you said that about the blending. Right, right. I assume that this part of the Malaysian student group on campus that you encouraged a process to blend in. Yeah. Of like, do you see some of the students being quite resistant, blending in and like they just want the campus? And I asked that question because like at you, Chicago, like, I can also see that something that has to do with just hang out with students of their own country or within the students community, especially, I would say, like a lot of international students like I don't know, like most Typekit speak Chinese. Yeah. Of. How do you feel about that in general?

Speaker 2 [00:08:29] So it depends, I spoken to some people about that piece as well, so there are multiple schools of thought. One is I like to stick to my own people. I'm comfortable, right? They understand me and talk to me. They are a bit resistant to talk to people because they are not too confident in their own English proficiency or they don't understand the culture. They are not that good at making friends. But Asians, but Georgia ensure that the minority, the extra effort that will go and make more judges to be noticed or introverted. So and their language proficiency. There's another school, which is because I'm overseas. I do not want the mix of Asians that are people that think that way. So the other extremist I really oversee while driving me to Asia, I'm not going to. I do not want to be stereotyped in the meter that America is going to be going to look different. So there are people that we are so sorry. Either way, my fear is I always tell people to strike a balance. Hold on to your roots so you know who you are. Your friends will always be dead now. Now, seven days a week, two to three days makes for different people. You're overseas to take advantage of the opportunity, right? But also to those who are so true means that Asian, we are the only people that can celebrate Chinese New Year with you, right? We are the only people that can celebrate. And understand why. What's is so important? Because a lot of Americans don't use WhatsApp, right? They are the only people that can understand how difficult it is to call home on a weekend during the time difference. Yes, right. The homesickness. Why is this such a big deal? We are the only people associate that as well, and you want to be part of your own culture. Right? So we always tell people to strike a balance doesn't go either way. So the trade balance between to your benefit and you remember, we are a foreigner here. We are tourists here. So branding is very important

Speaker 1 [00:10:21] stuff as a foreigner.

Speaker 2 [00:10:22] Yes, we definitely do. OK. It's not whether we want to see it. We are foreigners. When you go out, we are treated like foreigners.

Speaker 1 [00:10:29] Do you think that extends to the american-born Chinese?

Speaker 2 [00:10:33] Yes. Yeah. I sent an American born Chinese as well and people who have been here for a second. Jen is the same because our our features are very unique.

It's not subtle. Is very unique. So even if you, for example, if today I go to some southern states, they wouldn't know if you were born here or not. There's nothing that here that says you put someone who were born here for three generations was just me with a new immigrant. They can tell the difference to them, the immigrants, but you are different.

Whereas the one thing that we see in Asia that we grew up with, we don't see race. You put the Chinese, the Indians together. We don't think, Oh, immigrant or not, we don't. We don't even think about. I think we grew up together. It doesn't make a difference, like when we go from restaurants or whatnot, we don't even have that consideration or what food would be comfortable, even though we just say what the latest restaurant, because everybody would go there because that's where you have interracial harmony, everything's blended together. Businesses like his work for Asian food is a thought. But back then, like everything is food, right? Different culture. We embrace that. But we're here today. Oh, I'm not too sure about Asian food or is that new cuisine or what not? We never grew up with that. So it's a culture softwares as well. Why you segregate to us a thing of the frank noodles is no different from having these other next day to a day. I just feel like having it is not, Oh, I want to try something different. I'm going to do this.

Speaker 1 [00:11:54] I'm going to write something exotic. Yup. Yeah. Okay. So I just want to know a lot of like the considerations when you first of a series of that

Speaker 2 [00:12:04] was in 2015 December. Yeah. OK.

Speaker 1 [00:12:08] Like, like what? What was going on like, you know, you say you had a job. Yeah. Oh my god. Yes.

Speaker 2 [00:12:15] First, no.

Speaker 1 [00:12:15] Yes. Yep.

Speaker 2 [00:12:17] So I work in tech. I still work in tech. I've been working in technology for several years now, almost 20 years now. And opening a restaurant with never in the plan. I never grew up in the family. I never worked in a restaurant and never waited tables. What happened was I was helping a friend who was a chef who was on the venture on his own to open his own restaurant. So he asked me for my advice as a consumer, as a friend, like younger generation, what would you eat? Where would you go? One location matter cuisine at all. So we looked at different places. I was trying to chime in as a friend. It where where the popular spots today? What are people eating vegetarian like? Hey, there's no Malaysian restaurants in Chicago. There hasn't been one for 10 years when you open. Why not open one? And then we picked Logan Square at many locations to raised right now because it's right down the street from where I live. I rented a pattern and then I say, Hey, I can come by and help you out, and then I'll come by it off to the hotel I'll come to often. So I was helping him to put together the marketing the menu. Designed to lay out the price point of the food, the veggie as a hey, you're doing so much for me. Why don't you just join me? So I say, All right, sure, I can help you. I would join you. Everybody wants to be a business, right? So that was my first venture by opportunity into owning a business. So I joined as a partner starter, helping other restaurant all trial by fire. You learn everything on the spot, you learn to wait tables, run orders, bring the tables and whatnot.

And that was interesting, especially when you were trying to introduce the Malaysian food, who has never been in Chicago for 10 years. And even before then, there was only one other restaurant. In all the years since the 60s and 70s, there's only been one or two. But Asian restaurant at the time, which is set, so we trying to introduce that, introducing it to Logan Square, which is like a hipster community. So there's not many muggings also.

Right? Yeah. He didn't go far. That's what I thought. Many Asians are Malaysians. That Apple. So how do you tell locals what is Malaysia? The first thing they think about is this Chinese or this type, and it's neither right. There are some similarities on the cooking style, but the flavor is completely different. We use more lemongrass coconut milk, we use our own spices. So it's a blend and introducing that for some time to figure out what the right way to appreciate. Then it put us to re familiarize ourself with our own cuisine and culture. Oh shit. Where the national come from? Why not flavor? Hey. How did it come about?

That was that history to audit cuisine and food? Then you learned to appreciate. Oh, shit, never thought about that. We just had it. Now we know the history or the culture. Like what brought this around? Right? So that's how we started our restaurant. That's how we learned to introduce our own food and explain that to a fellow Malaysians who might not have realized our shit. They came in from some American friends that they couldn't explain the food. So we explain it lot, which I never thought about then. So there was eye opening, and that was fun telling your own people about your own food that they grew up with that you didn't realize.

Speaker 1 [00:15:37] And so when you pivot to edit where you still holding onto

Speaker 2 [00:15:41] until today and you're holding on to my tech job, OK?

Speaker 1 [00:15:44] Yes. Yeah, I lost it because it's taking on like that. And it's it's a it's a risky venture. Yes. And, you know, risk taking is actually the same, but it has always yeah, it's usually frowned upon, right? I would be like, Oh, you have a steady job while you go into this new industry base, you know, everybody's catering industry as well. So it was all what was.

Speaker 2 [00:16:08] So the whole idea, the motivation was a muddy because my tech got a lot more, definitely like most paid job. The thing was to spread the Malaysian culture. We were very proud of our own culture and we wanted to make sure that that jet was to be, of course, again, 10 years. No Malaysian restaurant, there's only one now in the books, you have to drive an hour. So we miss the opportunity whenever we have competition. Oh, but you have a hometown. Oh, I miss Luxor, I miss the chocolate, I miss the chicken and all.

Then like someone go to make it happen. We're always hoping someone make it happen. Make it happen. That eventually came to a point. You know what? Why are you waiting for someone to make it happen? We're also making it happen. So we started it that way. That was the whole notion. It wasn't about the money. It was more about bringing in the culture, introducing and being proud of our own heritage, whether Malaysia and Singapore in Indonesia, we just want to introduce back to Malaysia or into Chicago.

Speaker 1 [00:17:03] And what was the reception like, what you expected that

Speaker 2 [00:17:07] was in the beginning, you would think a bit of time, but that that also when we realized that Malaysian food is very universal. You don't have to like spicy food to like Malaysian food because we have so many offerings, right? Spicy, not spicy, vegetarian non-vegetarian as well. So Malaysian food is very universal. So that's one thing we discovered and every tasted it left it not like, OK, I'm OK with, Yeah, I'll tolerate it like shit. I love this. And they came back two to three times a week for the past five years. My regular customers come in two or three times a week and they ordering the same few dishes. We just think that we would have done that. We go out and eat a chocolate every week and we had that chocolate down that one year whatnot. So then we realized that there was a realization that shit but Asian food is very universal, so it fits everybody. It doesn't have to be exotic and it's very flavorful. People love it as well.

Speaker 1 [00:18:01] What was the

Speaker 2 [00:18:01] best selling dish? So the best selling dish was the laksa in the winter and chocolate dough in the summer. Okay. Right. Both very nice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 [00:18:17] Yeah, and I know that you have alluded to the paramount and all of this of cuisines be very exotic people, things have fallen in and they come in with the kind of mindset that, oh, you know, this is really my thing. I'm willing to give you a try. This your whole point, trying to make it like a normal thing where they don't see as exotic kind of food.

Speaker 2 [00:18:38] Yes. So you think about Thai food and Japanese food is so common right now. Everybody knows that Chinese food, the notion has always been why can't Malaysian food be that way? Now you travel to London, you travel to Australia, New Zealand, you can find Malaysian food pipette like TV dinners in grocery every bit so common. But over in the US is not that common. So that got to me personally. Why is it because there are no Malaysian chef or not Malaysian, but there's a Malaysian, there's Malaysian chef. Then it comes down to a lot of people found the easy way out. I'll sell

something to every year to eating, to make business so that there's so Malaysian bubble in Chinese restaurant. It is also but we were trying to create a whole different market altogether, so we wanted to push Malaysian food. One, we wanted to stand out and also to to push the culture piece.

Unidentified [00:19:31] Yeah, you see,

Speaker 1 [00:19:33] some residents take the easy out. I was taking a look at this. I mean, I think I think you've been the right person to stop, but I don't think that there was like things

Speaker 2 [00:19:41] like the Chinese menu.

Speaker 1 [00:19:43] Yeah, like all orange and Mongolian. You're right,

Speaker 2 [00:19:46] but there's only an hour to go menu. OK? Right? So you had to figure out how do you jack people in? So what I was trying to do is very straightforward. Americans are not familiar with Chinese chicken noodle, but they know what a party is. They know what a beef chopped onions. So what people are trying to do is if a customer comes in and say, Hey, I'm going to have a part time, I say, All right, great. Something familiar. Why don't you try a taqueria? So we will try to introduce them by using an opener like you summoned the orange chicken. I say, yeah, come and do a unique Malaysian restaurant. We offer orange. You can, but why not? You try our hand on his chicken.

You're going to love it. If the like, if you take it off your chest, right? And then we will also do things like our love to get used to ramen. So they're like, Oh, ramen are quite quite different. But there was that. Oh, I want to try this out. Why not try to give it a chance? So that becomes like a conversation piece. They will come in for something and it will introduce them to something else, and then they will fall in love with it. But you need something to bring people in, right? If you had something that was completely out of this world and you need people who are adventurous, but, you know, having something that they're common and then you, when they come in, you tell them about, why don't you try this? And that had a lot of success by introducing different things when you come in for something else. But that worked out pretty well. When you

Speaker 1 [00:21:05] do this, like new features, they identified

Speaker 2 [00:21:09] how receptive to it. They're very receptive to. They try to say, Alright, maybe today I should try this one after a few more times, because if you do your regular dishes that they're very familiar with, well, then abuse that trust and confidence in you. All right. You're not shitting me, right? You're telling me the truth. So, OK, I'm going to take your recommendation this time. And once you try, do that, all right. I've been missing out, right? So I'm going to love this. No, I'm taking time to.

Speaker 1 [00:21:45] Yeah, I would love to talk about food, but this one was

Speaker 2 [00:21:49] not about

Speaker 1 [00:21:50] our food again. I was just about, you know, the impact of obviously COVID 19 has always lasted just like us, right? I imagine both of these were quite challenging. Do a lot of business wise actually better? Yeah. What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 [00:22:06] How about that? So we had been preparing for COVID because it was a big thing in Asia, like us, like everything else. So we were monitoring the situation with families back home. We started in December of 2019 and then people to together, Oh, it's not going to come to us, but we have seen it started spreading around Europe, right? So back then, in February, much before the city lockdown level two or three weeks before we would be giving our team a heads up. Chances are these will come to us is going to be because we grew up in the SaaS era, whereby lockdown entire country. So we were used to that. So we started telling our team that, hey, be prepared for this. And we started putting contingency plans. If this happens is what we are going to do, how we can restrict our business model. So be everything ready just in case being prepared. And so happened. The city did lockdown. We kept our team in place, so nobody was probably depends on it. Oh, sure. What am I going to do now? Overnight, we were ready. All right now we're going to need to go. We kept our team on payroll to take orders over the phone. And so it had a car. They could do delivery. We try to spread out the ship among them and be up there immediately. This was much of 2020 before anybody started talking about unemployment labor shortage. We increased the pay to make sure everybody could pay their bills, and then we also extended our delivery range to downtown. Because Chicago was empty, traffic was empty so we could go downtown back to Sarray in 15 minutes.

Before that, you would think about 30 minutes to an hour so that we could do that. So we extended that to drive in business and also to serve the people because we were regular customers who live downtown without leave their houses right because of the cold coffee circuit so that the on and we started giving out food to the local community, they didn't approve any document at all. All they do is come in and say, Hey, can I get a free meal? And we give them free food? We offer like freight rates options like a vegetarian non- vegetarian. Each other could fit a regular adult for about two to three meals given out. So we started giving our meals daily. All you do is come in and we would give it, you know, question on. It was our way of trying to spread some positivity within the community because a lot about our job, there was not a known distance to shut down a lot. People overnight lost their income and we wanted to do what we could to help. So we started offering news to people. We did it for several months, actually. And we had a quite good reception on a daily basis. And these are not our regular customers. These are people, just one community who heard it from a friend who can. We had people that came in at two to three times a week together, and they felt better and we told them is fine. Don't assume that if you need it, you need it. Right now, we are going to question you are waiting in the water. So we just offered another. Our conscience is clear. Whatever you do to put on you right of funding could be help so many people. There were families that came in with a bunch of kids to prove that this is not going to waste or they're not selling it. And we told them, don't do that, just take it as a matter of trust. I mean, the world we live in, you can spread some positive. You know that, right? So that worked out pretty well.

And we believe in good karma and our business picked up as well. We got a lot more orders, so we were blessed compared to all our peers in the industry. We were actually blessed and then we worked with a bar next door to us. They couldn't open GoDaddy and serve food. So what we're down to offering is like if you all of our customers are that food from us, they are a buyer from them and we deliver altogether. Plus, if just delivering beer, nobody would order because it's cheaper everybody from grocery online. So we partner with them to do a. People can order food from us because to buy from them, we would deliver it with our food and that helped them sustain for the next few months and do all the grants. And I started coming. So that was on things to return to for a community course energy. That's what Asian hospitality is all about, right? We take care of each other, whether Asian and we think our own people. So that brought us around and it's spreading good karma around the world. So yeah, I guess.

Speaker 1 [00:26:12] Yeah, so I guess it really doesn't mean that you see yourself, as you know, we talked about that concept of being a foreigner.

Speaker 2 [00:26:23] Yeah. So.

Speaker 1 [00:26:25] At the same time, you have a community, but also being a part of Florida.

Speaker 2 [00:26:28] Yup. You balanced. So you tried to blend in. I was telling you, that's the extreme that I'm overseas and I don't miss people or I only want to make sure our people. And this is where I think the middle ground. And part of the community. But as you blend in as well, they must treat you differently. But you are still part of the family. That's all right. So that's why we have our society. You are insulting in the sense of your food. Yes, you are a bit different from them. You're not local. But with a smaller population yet to be part of a community like family to them. So like, we donate to the schools and all, we participate with them. The whole idea is to let them know that, hey, we are here to be a part of community, just like one of your own. But we are friends and all and.

Unidentified [00:27:13] And oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 [00:27:15] So the other question now under oath was the impact of the joint fight because I know that I mean, I didn't at that point, I was in Singapore by know that in downtown Chicago, it was

Speaker 2 [00:27:25] just getting feedback right? It was very bad. I drove up that morning before the protest and I was going to go down to my office to pick up some things, which is in the loop. I couldn't get into the city, got there, blocked out all exits. So I turned back home. What would it take a mere 15 minutes to get home? Got me an hour. And at that point, I called on my team at the capital wasn't open yet, according to Mr. Wright, and told them that we are going to close for the day if I couldn't get downtown. Yeah, not be able to come up to the restaurant. But if the city is lucky, now is quite serious. So we told them they could for the first time ever, be closed for one day just to see how things were going. And thankfully we did. Everybody stay home safe and we told them to reach out. They need our help for anything at all. And the restaurant did not get affected. Physically, nobody broke in or whatnot, which is good because your partner communities or people wouldn't come after you. But what about the second day I drove down into the city was very bad, and we've heard of other restaurants were seriously affected. Yeah, the place was broken into or stolen and ransacked. We were blessed. We did not go through that.

So, yeah, but it was better for the restaurant industry as well because you lot of these are income during a critical period. So is this one day? Yeah, but with COVID business was this low that one day would have affected people's pay as well. But we continue paying rent for that day because we're still to be paid. We we took it upon ourselves to be responsible for our employees, so that's what we did.

Unidentified [00:29:05] And I had to jump out in front of this because I feel like that is a

Speaker 1 [00:29:13] very divisive subject, especially among business owners, right? Because, you know, they are all their restaurants are going to their properties are getting damaged by the same time as minorities. As the kind of erosion of solidarity or alliance of their cause. So. I don't know, in general, what's what's your what's your take?

Speaker 2 [00:29:36] So this again, this is it depends on the people right against individuals. Everybody had different, different take. We definitely agree with the costs, but not the way it was carried up. There are ways to do protest, ways to do marches and not to create awareness to fight for your rights. But damaging and looting your fellow people.

That doesn't make sense. Some of these business owners are all minority immigrant minorities. So by renting them deadly suffering, then right now what the messages are sent across? Not neither are we trying to encourage the only target the white owned businesses. That's not the case. But businesses are all trying to survive, right? There are ways to send your message revolting voting, and this just gives you a bad name. But then you're shifting focus away from the real issue. And people are not focusing on the looting rather than the just fight. Just like you are just diverting attention, which is not the ideal outcome. You want people to focus on what's that cost? What's a story? That's what silent protest is all about. But then when you do this, you're just diverting people's attention. Now you have advocates who believe in you as like, Well, I support the you guys, and now you're breaking my place like, No, you're giving me nothing. How can I support you? If not, had to worry about other things? Right? So now you have the focus. I do. I support the cause. I do. I support my business and my family and my people. So you divide a lot of people in that sense with the protests, especially with the looting.

Speaker 1 [00:31:08] Yes. Yeah, that's. I wanted to understand.

Unidentified [00:31:14] There's a lot of plots about solidarity across

Speaker 1 [00:31:18] both minority groups and other marginalized communities, right? Right. And you do see that as being successful. What do you see as becoming fascism in the future? Because like you said, you know, every community are facing their own set of issues, right, like the black community. That concerns me slightly different from the Asian American community here. Do you see any sense of solidarity building up for

Speaker 2 [00:31:42] the immediate future in what is going to be a very this is going to be an uphill battle, right? Only a few countries have had success. Singapore was one of them whereby people are all integrated. So when you talk to a Singaporean, they don't have to defend themselves at any city. Yeah. Does that say I'm a Singaporean?

Speaker 1 [00:32:02] Right, that's very true. I just want to jump in here, right? It's only in the U.S. that I would ask people something about race.

Speaker 2 [00:32:08] Like, it's not as you. It is also in Malaysia. If you meet a Malaysian, they will clarify that you are right. I'm a Malaysian, Chinese. Yes, I'm a Malaysian, Malay, Malaysian Indian. But when I was in Singapore, one interracial couples are so common nobody cares whether Muslim, Indian, Malay, Chinese, nobody came. It's very common. Is that an issue, right? Your prime minister right now is a female Malay president. Prior today was Indian. Nobody. Right? I think your prime minister is Chinese, right? No. Nobody pay attention to that. When they look at parties, they don't look at parties because they are Chinese party. Indian Party is not. Is this one? No party is tied to ethnicity. Is not is less your costs. What do you represent? Whereas in Malaysia, for example, is a reflection of what a US has? Yeah, different parties based any city. The Indian Party, the Chinese party. To anybody that is definitely creating racial tension. You've got the Chinese embassy, must the Chinese party, you know. And then there is, of course, a unifying party. But again, inside to differentiate into the Chinese, the Chinese organization, a vision. Let me speak to Malaysian that I emphasize that Malaysian Chinese right. And like in Malaysia, is restricted in non Malay, will never, ever become a minister of education or

finance. You come and become a prime minister if you are not a Malay, but some Chinese or anybody that's not Malaysian, not Malay are treated as second class citizens. That's how it is. So same thing over here when you come to the US to say which party do you associate with? Is it a white based body? Is it a minority based body and in city neighborhoods, they go to Singapore. Nobody ever can say, Oh, this neighborhood, yo, you must be Malay. You must be this. Nobody can. Singapore is small, but it's not that small just in different areas like people you the east in the West Side. There were differences in that piece. Essentially, you must be rich, but there's no any city based division in Singapore, and they've done a great job in that everybody goes through the same thing. Whereas in Asia or even in the US, over sort of more likely you're going to be white. Oh yeah, in the meat fish. Yeah, I'm mostly African-American. Right? And different things are all and that parties are based on that. So it's unfortunate it can happen. Is you better? I always tell people about the Singaporean culture. I never met a Singaporean will come and clarify for me that I'm a Singaporean, Chinese or whatnot. They don't care. I'm Singaporean. What do you mean like Jenny? I'm Singaporean. That's all I know. I'm Singaporean, but we here as you like. What are you? Yeah. What does it matter? Right? So what if a Vietnamese Chinese polling that people can differentiate between any city and nationality? Nationality is what your passport says you are. And if it is your culture, your heritage. So the Americans who are from who are Irish, but you're Irish by a necessity or your culture, but your American right, you've got a dick to that. Yes. But you are digging through that not to understand my culture that differentiates segregate me. Then it defeats the purpose. What are you going to get out of this? Right? So like you said, Oh, I'm Irish, I don't like, Yeah, my family is Irish, I'm from America, for example, I'm Malaysian, so I was happy in Malaysia. Like, why? But you kept my Chinese like, you didn't ask me if I'm Chinese, you can tell my features right?

Speaker 1 [00:35:44] Would you say you're Malaysian or Malaysian?

Speaker 2 [00:35:45] And I'll tell people I am a Malaysian? Right? Because that's where I'm from. I grew up. I live in America. I work here. But that is just my immigration status. I don't consider myself a full fledged American yet because there's a lot of things that we have to learn from the cultural perspective as well. Right? So like even my I have a son now, his two years old nationality, which is American ethnicity wise, he's Chinese. But whether the Malaysian. Comes in, right, because Malaysia is now a nationality, because I'm a first generation, but Malaysian is just my nationality and it is through Chinese so that you become an interesting conversation when you want to break it out there. So I think doing like what Singapore have done is impressive at this American. The rest really doesn't matter. But why does that come into play? How does that impact our life? It really doesn't. Right?

Speaker 1 [00:36:41] So, yeah, yeah, I think those are very salient points, especially a part of our. The the need to. Where exactly are from? I think that's a very uniquely

Speaker 2 [00:36:54] American, right? Like why does it matter? Yeah. How is it going to change anything?

Speaker 1 [00:36:59] One What does it matter like if I tell you you don't even know where it

Speaker 2 [00:37:02] is, right? And what are you going to do that information? Yeah, you're asking me something that you can't do anything with, right? It's not going to change the way you pay me. It's not gonna change the way I work. I can't speak English. Take me

any test. Give me any subject. I can complete the work. Why would it matter? I graduated the same degree with you in a same as you. Why does it matter? Right? If, like today, everybody's working from home. If you never saw me on a camera just by the phone, would you be able to tell Woody? Wouldn't matter what I was saying. You can't differentiate. Would it matter as long as the job is getting done? Why do you why does it come to play? That's all I'm concerned about. But once you get the job done, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 [00:37:43] But I guess there's something better to question about solidarity, which is, you know, it's supposedly the lions among minorities in the US.

Unidentified [00:37:54] Like, you know, I mean, this

Speaker 1 [00:37:58] is my personal speculation. I don't think it's going to be very successful because I feel like every single race or ethnicity, they are looking for different things. And so it's not going to be a very unified kind of coalition. But at the same time, you know, I talked to my American friends or professors, and they have a lot of feeling like solidarity that somehow people can, you know, work together to advance a singular cause of what are you?

Speaker 2 [00:38:28] So I think that is more of a narrow view personally. And yet this is my personal opinion. When you ask Americans, they only see the problem between the black and the whites. But as Asian, we know they're small. Whether the Asians who are facing issue like an Asian with just shot right recently. Right? Huge cargo. There was a protest earlier and that lady was murdered, right? What if anybody that the Chinese family that was murdered down in Chinatown? There was a small protest? That was it. Because we have model minority. We don't stir the pot. We are not expected to stir the pot.

Speaker 1 [00:39:04] I right my comments, right?

Speaker 2 [00:39:06] So you see Boston leaders elected their first Asian Taiwanese lady as their mayor. They made a big brouhaha that why? Right? If you want to talk a celebrity, it shouldn't matter that you did serve me that or it should be expected. It should have mattered when you have a different any city agenda going up before make a big case. So it's ingrained in American culture that if a certain race that is not white comes up is a big win. Celebrities like what you have in Singapore, when the president was a Malay lady came up, it was a big celebration by people celebrating Yay, a new president. Nobody was saying, Oh, she's a Malay woman that made it. It didn't matter. That was on top. People say, Oh yeah, we have a new president is going to stand for our race right where the president, the president came out. Nobody you like, Oh, Indian is up there. It wasn't the thing. Nobody saw that there. Thought it yet. A party member is now here, and now they can lead. Now the vision that not, they're going to push. She came from a common family. She lived a hasty justice now. People, for the people, that's not a concept. They thought about the causes. What they represented left. So, Audie. Oh, now she's going, look off the Malays benefit, the race benefit or whatnot. It wasn't that way, but America is different. Oh, I'm going to speak up. I'm going to represent my race. And what about the other? The moment you say you represent your race and what happens to the others? Say, if Asian, come say I go to represent my race or not. Well, what about the whites? What about the flags? What about the others and the city? What about you working class, your income?

Shouldn't you be talking about that rather than gender gender identity? So that's one thing that is very unique in the US. They segregate everything based on that piece.

Unidentified [00:40:58] Yeah, I think that's

Speaker 1 [00:41:00] a that's about what I hear, right? Yeah, OK. Let's talk about, like you said about exotic. Busy, right? And I don't want this to come off as offensive. You say that you are first generation with it, the confidence of representation that you feel like as someone who is the first generation manager that I can present the authentic view of religion for Malaysian culture.

Speaker 2 [00:41:27] So what made you think that only would be new? So first gen, because my parents, my that was I'm China, right? But he immigrated over to Malaysia at a very young age. But we growing up in Malaysia, that was the only foot we knew. So it's like my son growing up here. He wouldn't know Malaysian food. He would only know American food. Now, can he represent American food? He has to cook. That's what when you put, he would know growing up that the only culture he notes growing up. So same thing for us. We grew up in Malaysia. That's the only point we knew, right? That was the only thing we knew since the day we were born, until the day when we left the country, the culture, the food cuisine, the taste profile, the history of it. So that's why we believe that we can represent that peace is based on our own upbringing of that food. Right. And like most food, there is are, of course, family recipes for things. But again, every area, every neighborhood, every city, every state in Asia, the same foot amid different need. So when you challenge the what is this authentic? And we have had that people ask or it is not authentic Malaysian food, then beyond the question, what is an authentic pizza? New York has their own style, Detroit style. Chicago is different stuff. What is authentic? So now I am from Kiev. My chef is on connect, so he is more towards the style of cooking. And again, it depends on which generation you are from which era, because the cooking style changes, flavors, changes. So when someone say, Oh, my mum can cook better than this, oh, this is not like my home style. Honestly, where are you from? This neighborhood, where you from? This is the case that I grew up with. You may have grew up with a different style. So same thing with Singapore. East Coast, West Coast, a different order is the same country so small. But there's a difference in the food and the preparation because again, the chefs, they themselves came from different places. There's not one recipe how to pass through the entire nation, right? So that's why we believe that the representation is more on the overall, the cooking style, the taste profile. Of course, there will be some differences between the few, but those are unique because if someone has been doing the same thing for decades. So you have an 80 year old person who has been cooking this for 60 years, that becomes history. But 60 years ago, when he started people like, What is this? This is new. Why are you doing it this way? 50 years later? Oh, this is authentic. So over history, over time, everything becomes cuisine because people grew up with your taste. Not only do you have a population that grew up with you, and that is what happens. That's how I see it.

Speaker 1 [00:44:11] So how could that be what you'd like to see, authenticity or whatever is not based on, you know, a particular recipe, but about his profile, right? Cooking stuff?

Would you feel comfortable making your head shared like a white like?

Speaker 2 [00:44:26] Do you think that this represents why you're hiding? Yes. So it is not the person behind the what is more on how is it prepared, right? You can have a person from a different light. What's the say Asian stick? Yeah, right? They can. You be amazed, but not really get that. Oh, Asian kitchen. Oh, of course. But when you put a white person in the kitchen, cooking is of like or that's not to be authentic. Why? Why? That's a get raised. I'm a different kind of person cook. Yes or no. If we close up the diversity, the chef, I don't know whether the chef, the food come up. Do you care about the quality of the food

or do you care about the person cooking the food is the quality, the food. So it really doesn't matter who's cooking, what lies. They can get their flavor profile right. And the cooking is all right. It doesn't matter who's cooking, it shouldn't matter.

Speaker 1 [00:45:16] Yeah, I think I think because a lot of this kind of restaurant right on the other, the kitchens. Yeah, I said it all from the far right, actually from India or whatever. And then the I guess the intent is to show that

Speaker 2 [00:45:35] this is something right and but you don't hear that. I don't feel that way. I feel that yes, your paycheck chef could be dead because they are the only one who knows how to cook it. The history why is that the only way certain sources are done in a way that is more like a person was to say, if I had a white chef, for example, or any chef at all, that it's not Malaysian, then to cook the food lived in Malaysia for a few years and come back and say, Hey, I can, I can open my own Malaysian restaurant, for example. Would it matter? It really doesn't, because they they had literally set a grub, initially spent 10 years cooking in Malaysia and they are capable. They would pick up a few things, and then they come. They open their own and would be authentic. Anybody can learn to cook. Right?

Like stir fry noodles is an Asian thing. We NYT away came from, but people with and that's the beauty of international cuisine around the world. Asian can cook a good steak, and we're going to prepare a good fried noodle. It doesn't matter is, did they pick up the essence of the cuisine or the dish, which is the cooking style and the sources and flavor, not the person behind it? That really does it better. Not only you can pick it up, it doesn't matter.

Unidentified [00:46:48] I, I, I see as well, but you know,

Speaker 1 [00:46:53] I want to push them, right? So what if someone who maybe has study under like serve? I like Chicago, right? Would he be able to cook for Asian?

Speaker 2 [00:47:06] But definitely they would be able to

Speaker 1 [00:47:10] right by the person has not lived in Malaysia.

Speaker 2 [00:47:13] No, they're familiar with the cuisine, long as whoever they're showing them their taste. The actual Malaysian for. If you said you were under study for someone with some Asian, yes, but if, yeah, just going by recipes, you can put it together, but you wouldn't know the actual what you mean. But so what you were supposed to taste through, that might be a bit questionable, right? Of which you cannot describe the flavor profile, I feel. So you can just get a familiar profile. But if you had done it or tasted it from someone who had done it before, that at least is closer to the truth, right? So that's the way I see it, which is long as you taste it. The original at least once or twice, a few times over time. Not just one that oh, I know that it takes more than that, right? But that can happen as well.

Speaker 1 [00:48:01] Yeah. The part about whatever is about Malaysians, right? Well, any cuisine character is constantly changing. Right? Like, even if you go to Singapore, you hate the food that he has to go and you take his different, slightly different. Yeah, I guess what actually is, you know, a real Malaysia brand because it's constantly changing and you are overseas and then you are trying to show them a picture of an Asia, which is itself close to like, cool, what is the consulate?

Speaker 2 [00:48:30] The constant is basically the cooking method. So Asian cooking method is a light, especially Malaysian cooking method is very different, like Malaysian Singapore and cooking methods. Very similar, very close. It is with the wok and you say the world is basically not so much the size. The shape of that is the control of flame, right? So like, American cooking doesn't use a lot of what they use high flame, but not as concentrated as ours. So the temperature is very different and ours, we do not burn stuff, right? We cook to make sure it is between the it's a good balance, and that's where you come to a good balance of being cooked. But not char is right in between. That's what makes this is the flavor that char flavor, right? So a lot of cuisines would do that. The other thing is also the sauces, along with things of our flavor of food. It's like a lemongrass beef like coconut milk. And also our own spices that unique to our own geography. Go look is what was available about get right and everybody says it's an issue. Why was it prepared this way? So there's a tendency towards that as well to understand the history of it. Then from there you can innovate can achieve the same results as came from probably some other new ingredients. Can I tweak it? And that is OK, it's OK to tweak it. What's to say?

Asian tweaking the taste is acceptable that Americans had to tweak your taste and oh yeah, try to change up the, you know, it's hard to be that way. Good food is good food. It doesn't matter, right? But it can. Yeah, except the food better. Do you like it? And there is no universal acceptance of food. Your taste for three different varieties before you might notice something more flavorful. I like something lighter. Does that make the food that?

No, it's just that everybody has different taste buds. Same thing over in Malaysian food as well. Some people like coconut. Some people never have coconut. But some people like lemongrass. Some people like cilantro. Some people don't like cilantro. Does that mean the food that no, it doesn't exist? Have you found the food that's right for you? And because we have to find the food that's right for you, that's why there are so many variations, right?

Speaker 1 [00:50:36] And that's one thing that you talk about innovation, which is actually one of the questions I wanted to ask, right? Just, you know, as a restaurant owner, as someone who's trying to present the image of religion, food and culture, what's the limit to accepting innovation or fusion food intake? Do you have a limit?

Speaker 2 [00:50:55] So we don't really have a limit. Again, it goes back to is this still true to the days that before it's close to home that a Malaysian who just arrived from Malaysia never been overseas came over to a restaurant when their taste is what they said or did close to what I had to hope. Right? Oh, what the heck is this? This is not Malaysian food, right? Is that what the Dow is or based spicy? That's a good balance. Malaysian food is a good balance. It's not spicy. Spicy, but not too spicy is bland. You get to taste other ingredients and spices in the Soviets and get towards that balance energy. It must be good food, right? Like, can you do a chocolate? Yerba is bland. There's no taste at all. You can. But can you still call it chocolate? That would become a whole new dish altogether. Now, can you create new dishes? Of course you can. But what Asian representation is not Malaysian food anymore, right? You can take everything apart. You don't use the Malaysian way of cooking. You don't use the sauces. You don't have a Malaysian cooking. What makes it Malaysian is that the shirt, is it a sole source? Is there a cooking method? Is it a presentation? So to me is a bit of the tasting powder cooking method and the presentation, the missing Malaysian ness or the person cooking? Can you innovate between that realm? Yes, but to a certain extent, what is the limit until it doesn't look like what it's supposed to look like? Oh, it doesn't taste that was supposed to taste like, like if you make a chocolate out to sweet, then that be kind of a pass you don't taste. Oh, it doesn't have certain things. Yeah, then it's neither here nor there. Then you're just created a whole new cuisine altogether, and that is fine. But there will be a limit whereby two

people who are from representing Oh, you cross the line where you're now into new new realms. New Frontier, right? You've created a whole new cuisine on your own, and now you've built something new for yourself that you're pretty unique to yourself. And then it's OK to

Speaker 1 [00:52:51] be someone calls up an agent. Oh, Malaysia,

Speaker 2 [00:52:54] then I'll ask them a question. Malaysian fusion? Yes. Then I'll ask them. That one makes it Malaysian, OK?

Speaker 1 [00:53:01] He says. I'll use lemongrass strains. The spices

Speaker 2 [00:53:05] correct? Would you be okay? I'll be OK with that. OK. Right? So you'll be OK with that. There's something to it. But when we talk about a traditional Malaysian food, let me know it gets a certain taste profile within a certain limit that we're looking for. If it doesn't have that, then I'll be skeptical calling a Malaysian. Right? They say, Well, this is my new take on the Malaysian food, but wrong. But it's not Malaysia. It's a new take on Malaysian food. Meaning is your own creation. But deep innovation. The motivation was Malaysian based, but I changed it so you can say had to innovate or inspired by Malaysian, but it's not really Malaysian anymore at that point. That's what I would regard it as to be inspired by Malaysians like we do.

Speaker 1 [00:53:48] And because I would say that a lot of people, a lot of especially ethnic minorities in the US, sometimes they call out people appropriating southern culture, whether it's

Speaker 2 [00:54:03] elements of that culture. Yeah, there was a recent issue of if I had a Chicago chef, that meant a big but cause a big issue as well.

Speaker 1 [00:54:13] Yeah. Like, you know, instances like this right of. Have you ever felt that you know, someone appropriate in your culture?

Speaker 2 [00:54:23] No, not really. So to me, I don't feel that way anybody can cook, right? The cuisine really doesn't matter. So what if someone is cooking, but for better to myself? It really doesn't matter. It should not matter at all. Of because we are true to because the longer they stay true to represent your culture and heritage, then it doesn't matter who's cooking. Right? And when you talk about appropriation, so you've given that case, there would be no innovation because now you're boxing everybody in. So that means Asian can create a Pitzer. Asian cannot cook a steak or burger. But in Malaysia, we have burger, the popular Rumney Burger Butcher. So here. But Romney Burger was inspired by a fellow. We saw people were selling McDonald's burger in Asia, but it wasn't halal today, whether it be something halal. So maybe our beef, rather that got it in. And he made it a staple dish in Asia. You go to Asia, in Malaysia and Singapore. You talk about Romney Burger. That is the one thing that represents Malaysia and Singapore with the Romney burger. If going by the analogy that, oh, you cannot, you cannot appropriate this culturally, you know? And Romney will never existed, we would have been missing out on this. There is a fish right there when you talk about like culture appropriating, like all the Kiwis. All right, cool. Is a blend of Chinese Indonesia. Malaysia, right, is a blend of this that if you drop a appropriation which is not wrong, but then you're limiting everybody. You're not giving room to innovate, adapt to new flavoring, to new development in the culinary world. So I don't really believe in that long as they're doing it well, it really doesn't matter who wins yet. I don't need a Korean two only Koreans to make a remember what it was to

say a Chinese or a Hispanic person can make a good one because one he's worked in a restaurant, but he just learned from the best person and he decided and there is one right now in Chicago that you did. That is the spending by his cooking Korean food. Like, what's wrong with that? He learned from a good master. Oh, good. Like developer guru in the area in that domain, he learned from him and he created his own. Blending his own culture into that becomes a whole new culture. Not to get it. I get inspired by Korean, but it was a blend of his own Hispanic culture. He created a whole new thing, and it tastes good.

What's wrong with that, right?

Speaker 1 [00:56:56] I should put it on, on the other hand, I also know people say that. There is an element of power dynamics at play here, so you. That's in itself a major context. You talk about Indian, Chinese, Malay and then them borrowing from each other. Right. We are OK with that. All right. I guess is it possible that in the US, there is a feeling that they are taking away something from China and that then taking that away if it actually strips away part of my culture? Because, you know, in the US, this is all about whitewashing and a lot of whether it's novels or comics that were adapted into movies, and then they cast white characters. And if people feel like that actively changing a part of my culture and they become quite indignant about

Speaker 2 [00:57:47] it, right? That part is a bit different topic. In that sense, whitewashing is definitely a thing that is not OK. Right? I hope quite possibly a Asian person's role or whatever is that is not OK. Right? Because that's misrepresentation. But cooking the foot really doesn't matter, because energy is the food. You don't see the person. You see the product, which is the food in a in the Hollywood world. The actors is the product. You have a white person playing. It is, you know, that is not OK. It's like someone is creating chocolate out with spaghetti that is not OK. All right. It's not culturally. It just doesn't taste. So it's not so much. Someone's taking over my culture. If someone is willing to spend the time and effort to learn about my culture and to do it well, I should be proud that my culture is getting out there so much that people are actually learning about it and trying to present it. So what's the saying? The other part of whitewashing was to say a a white American. I always use my here. I'm sorry, but what's to say you're white? American director producer is doing a documentary about Asian culture. Is that not OK? If they take the time to learn, to figure out and learn the history, to respect the history and present it with me? Casting the right people but to say the director has to be an Asian that's telling people that Asian cannot direct American movie, and we know that has been done. Eternals Asian Director Women If going by that cultural provision, Marvel is pure American culture, you've got to think it that way. Is comic, right? In boys comics you have Asian. If you read it, would that love be OK? You think about the reverse? But that's not to say, Hey, put more Asians of the minority to represent, but oh no, no, no. The none of these Americans and I can be doing about Asian. It doesn't work that we know as the product is that, well, who is behind the scene where it should not matter. Long as they respect the culture, long as the Taliban, like when the director was producing Marvel that she she kept true to the the whole storyline, the whole play of words and all right, and the whole casting to respect that she did it well. She didn't try to make it an Asian thing because to respect that the the fan base, the storyline. Right? So what's to say? Why not?

Speaker 1 [01:00:17] All right.

Speaker 2 [01:00:18] I saw it this way. I would see it that way. It doesn't have to be one or the other. That's a good balance between the two. And it can be done. Yeah.

Speaker 1 [01:00:29] Yeah. No. I want to move on to the opening of habitat loss

Speaker 2 [01:00:35] this year, December of 2020, 2019. OK. Yeah. And i o 2020. Sorry, December 2020. So, OK, I just wanted to ask.

Speaker 1 [01:00:47] Well, what was the kind of as day one that you do open another restaurant and also the choice of production increases, which is in itself quite a unique cuisine, even in your voice, this is not something that people eat very often in Malaysia. Right?

Speaker 2 [01:01:06] And so the timing, of course, is not perfect. We started this planning this project in April 2019, way before COVID. But then there were other issues that dragged on the project. But that's a whole different story in diplomatic cuisine. When people think about Malaysian food as anybody at all, they would think about food as the rice. The rice is a staple of Malaysian restaurants around the U.S. block and place are a modified 20 percent of the menu. You get the same Malaysian restaurant anywhere in the U.S.. So we had this competition. People also buy Malaysian food can never make it to the worst, which is not a high end cuisine. Is all of us the phrase not presentable? Right? So and we have spoken to different people as well in the Malaysian community or Malaysian food around the world like, Oh, you can use better ingredients, you can use this. But that is just a play on ingredients. Use higher end ingredients by the same dish. So we want to tell what, how is this Malaysian that we can share with people like the whole notion of Sara was introduced Malaysian food to people. Now I want to introduce more to culture. What is Malaysian culture? Well, yes, I do represent about things that we can tell people about the harmony of Malaysian, Chinese and Indian together for the centuries. It's not new. Have done this for several years. I really live that way. Then it came to light. All right. We might talk about Malaysian culture. What's so unique then that I don't believe in them for Chinese were like, All right, we can do that differently and then try to introduce more. But you can't run away from the chocolate there. And then one day on the trip back home in 20, it didn't hit me, but we went out the restaurant, my wife and my very cheap branagan restaurant.

The quiz, the dishes. Let me hear that why are just not on any menu? There's no restaurant dedicated in the US if you go to Singapore and Malaysia, or even an Australian restaurant dedicated to this old thing altogether. And it's not salty. Yeah, it's not as much as they do hawker food, but is a sit in restaurant, sit down at a restaurant you can't find new enough food by the roadside is not a thing. Then he goes thinking, like, why are we not doing this, why is there no such thing that we started learning more about the culture and all even introducing back to my fellow Malaysians for the reasons that we had to do before? But it's not really a Singaporean dignity, isn't it? But there is a culture meaning that is shipped across Indonesia, Malaysia, Thai Singapore. But the bigger influences in Singapore and Malaysia, but it's all over the world, right over that region of Asia, Southeast Asia, then me southern should use that. All right. Why have nobody talked about this?

There's a whole state in Malaysia that Malacca and Connect who is like the prime area for this culture but is not represented anywhere. So we feel that this is another part of Malaysian cotesting corporate culture that is not represented on the world stage. So we want to tell people I hate besides the hawker foot, that's another fight that you guys have all done this year. It is your practice. You love this, but you've forgotten about it, right? You became invisible to you because it was there, so we had to bring awareness being a front and center. There is the whole Peranakan culture that we should be talking about. And even Malaysia and Singapore, and some of them don't even realize that it's corporate control. Oh, isn't it new enough? Well, is support opera Anika, but that's what we wanted to do. And then it worked out pretty well.

Speaker 1 [01:04:41] You know, to give more than. Because poorer countries. Is actually defined by his activity, right, like you can contradict. Oh, this is tiny. It's like so difficult, right? So, Blendon, right, how do you know what you've got doing it?

Speaker 2 [01:04:58] So my family is right on their own. So they grew up with this for capital and they grew up with this. So it's one of their family's recipes. Now this one of those the family recipes of this because the project is a heritage. So the ship can is imperial Chinese voyages married with local Aborigines, right? So but some Chinese marrying Malay or Indian? No, not really. Not. No, no, it's not.

Speaker 1 [01:05:28] Yeah, because they

Speaker 2 [01:05:29] were the royalties. There was a bloodline involved, and we need you as a black knight. Just royalties. There's a Black Knight involved so that your brother can get. They're all over the place. Can you become a brown icon if you marry someone else? You can be married into the family, but that doesn't make you proud. You can marry into the family now if we do the same thing. But there are no more royalties in China. The You're already there, but now they blend together. Does that make the brand? No, it really doesn't anymore. It was a time in history where this was a thing. So those recipes was passed out by those families and it was very close to the family, right? They all came from the same family heritage. So that is being passed out. There is one of those things whereby there are certain written in stone recipes that had to follow using certain spices to create a dish. Can you alter it a bit? Yes, but there's very narrow margins of error or modification before it becomes an icon. So they're very particular about that piece as well. So that's why we want to introduce. So cookbook is such a rich history to it. Even this competition, ironically enough, Veronica, we have friends or people here who are the brand icon descendants. They're so happy to see their own culture being represented like there's nobody that you recognize us. And then they were sitting with friends that you grew up in Illinois. You know your product and they say, Yeah, because nobody, nobody talked about it. And now they're so happy that, oh no, thank you so much. My grandmother used to do this and then people say, OK, what makes the product and what makes it so unique, whether it's religious fingerprint something, we don't realize it, but they share their stories like, Oh, well, I didn't know that, right? And that's when you see that smile, that brightness, the glow, right? I represent that now. People are talking about me, my family and I wrote, We like to enjoy. We like to push them and when new customers come in. It's a long story. Yes. So it becomes a history lesson. So how how

Speaker 1 [01:07:28] do you go about doing that? So America is not

Speaker 2 [01:07:30] very familiar with Soviet pay associate. That could be something they're familiar with racial harmony. It was from two different races. Right? The Chinese royalty and Aborigines, two different races that lived in harmony for centuries. We trace it back to about a fourteen hundreds. Right? So you're talking at least six, five hundred years give or take. And they've been living in harmony until today at the center of the fight. They blend well with the local people. Right. It can be done. And so we tell them the story of racial harmony over centuries. And what? America is going through right now is the same thing, but you are talking about the whole blending in, is this going to work and is uphill battle, but I'm sure many of us thought that it wasn't easy either. There's not much broader history about that. It must have been easy finding the identity. What worthy, right? Got this whole thing never exist, that they were creating something new. So but after 300 years, they are still here. Right? So much that Americans, yes, this can be done. America is a very young country when compared to the rest of the world. It can be done. And this

sounds like the right time to stop giving. Talk about how to live together rather than segregate people. Right? That's what we're trying to push to towards pay you back to the current phenomenon the current status of our community. Right. Racial harmony can be achieved. A few better. It takes time. But this is the result, right? A lot of people consider what it is going to turn out to be. How will we live together? How are they ever going to be together? And we are telling them, Look here. Use them at some point. Singapore is a country that works today. This culture, that's the stuff of several years, and they're still going strong. You love crazy Asian movies. It's all based on this culture. How they kept it together, pick from them as guidance and then to each one is doable. So which I telling America that you're fighting about this, but we're talking about the long term of history in 600 years. This 10 20 years is nothing but the outcome. What will this lead towards for the future generations? And that's why we're here sitting around talking about it. So I tend to tell them that this is possible. And that's also the error message of this restaurant. But it just can be done.

Speaker 1 [01:09:58] Yeah, it's a very unique process. Yes. Yeah. I think I can do this right? Oh yeah. Like my last few questions, I feel, you know, like you say, exotic these. What do you see is the future of.

Unidentified [01:10:16] Where is Malaysia Singapore ahead of?

Speaker 1 [01:10:20] And I ask this also because a much last part of American politics, it is all borrowed from foreign. I get pizzas, burgers, products of the. None of this was really created. Yeah, India's rockets are brought in by immigrants or early settlers. But when people talk about the Italian food, they don't think of this exotic border, the serious head injuries. But somehow, when you see a Sichuan restaurant, there is the image of Exotic that comes up, even though Chinese food has been around for many, many years. And you know, the language of these people, many different. So you feel like this would be the trend before there was to be.

Speaker 2 [01:11:01] So eventually we going to make it, so be more and more Malaysian restaurants coming up, and more and more people are having it. So we talked about like regular customers, we talk about being part of a community. Once you've been there for long enough, I do not know what the timeline is. Maybe 10 years, maybe 20 years. But if this was a foot that you grew up with, that your family used to go, would you? It doesn't become exotic anymore, right? But there are people that grew up in Thai food and you just pay food. Even American. I only just hyphen. I know where every right. We are trying to bring it to us that direction. Oh yeah, I grew up Malaysian food in Scotland. Then people are going to say that, Oh, is that real Asian for wow? Is that through as Chicago is right then? But then they go over to like Asia? Are you going to get like some of the treated treatment and some of the Chinese food that we have with them and you? But least you know what a kangaroo is. You know what sambo and black Chinese? You know, galaxies. You know what to expect is something you grew up with. So in time, we believe that will be the case. We just need to give it time to spread around so people get familiarized with the whole culture, cuisine and the city as well.

Speaker 1 [01:12:08] I guess it's quite a positive outlook.

Unidentified [01:12:12] The future of this province, which is

Speaker 1 [01:12:15] integrally tied to couch identity, is going right in that simply, do you see yourself as becoming like you see a full fledged

Speaker 2 [01:12:24] America in the future? Not myself, but maybe my kids, because we grew up, we spent about 21 years in Asia that is ingrained in us, but we achieve our independence. We grew up in America in the sense that we achieved independence, became our own men and women. We grew up here, so it's always about our roots are always tied to Asian roots. So we will be that balance will be that bridge between the two can fully embrace American culture if we are thinking is a bit difficult. We were one to, but at the back of my, our mentality, our thinking driven by our upbringing. Whereas. This is the first generation that were born here, this idea, so it would be easier for them. The second that yeah, the children, yeah, there was one year, yeah,

Speaker 1 [01:13:16] yeah, that's quite interesting to me that you would never see yourself.

Speaker 2 [01:13:19] It is difficult. It's because we were still clinging on to our Asian past, whether we like it or not. But you have that to fall back because we are in the black right. We are still in the planning process. But if because we generally grew up here, we can spend 40 50 years. It doesn't matter. Our upbringing is based on Asian, our tastebuds, our living. Our lifestyle is all heavily driven by Asian influence.

Speaker 1 [01:13:47] How I wanted to talk about the what they used to then. Yeah, in. I guess so, I think that's a defeat to the use of assimilation, right? Did you run into the melting pot theory, right? Which is that you are if you are literally a part of the culture you can't distinguish, who's away? Right? But as a rule, the Senate, both you write about there is that, you know, you have your kind of

Speaker 2 [01:14:15] toss together, but yes, you pick it up. You guys do pick up where you're from,

Speaker 1 [01:14:18] like the beef away. Yeah. Do you feel like you have a preference?

Speaker 2 [01:14:22] So I think it's more of a sellable concept, right? You have your blended together, you embrace everything, you celebrate the cultures, the events, the holidays and all, but you run a pick it up for us, being new immigrants, being the immigrant you because you picked up with the Asian pieces of our self. So that is what was said, Asian set us apart. That's right, you would never be a true black, right? You would understand certain things as well. Right. So think cultures at the celebration because again, we are outside looking into the US culture like a clear example. Americans aspect that everybody celebrates tends to be far from outside looking. We know Thanksgiving is only U.S. celebration is isn't. Same thing with Halloween is a US based at a briefing by Christmas to celebrate. We'll wait because these are again religion dates, right? But Thanksgiving is a purely American thing.

Speaker 1 [01:15:22] The kids celebrate.

Speaker 2 [01:15:23] Yes. Well, he's two years old. So yeah, we celebrate it. But to us, it's small dress up. But what's the true history of everybody that learned that growing up?

Well, I guess

Speaker 1 [01:15:34] I would you that a lot of Americans do not write your

Speaker 2 [01:15:37] Halloween, but they grow up. There's a culture that's a that's a tradition to them. They have the tradition we bring and we're going to be had no children. We are building it up.

Speaker 1 [01:15:44] Do you think it's possible to adopt a new tradition?

Speaker 2 [01:15:47] Our. You can't, but tradition takes time to follow. Not one time to time. Do you want time to time is called one off. But I think it done it for decades. Then it becomes a tradition. But is it for you because you created? It is a tradition for you because something they grew up with, but we created it. So we are creators of tradition. Right? We are creating of a new following, but our children would become the followers and forces are followers of the tradition. Right? Yeah. So that's how I receive this.

Speaker 1 [01:16:18] This is expected to happen, you right? Yeah. I just wanted to know a little bit more about, I guess, your own personal identity. I feel a lot of times like you just have a great American. And I guess the answer is no. Right? Do you feel that America, the future

Speaker 2 [01:16:37] like, you know, like right now, but

Speaker 1 [01:16:39] what are your current identifiers like? What? What if someone asked you, you know, who are you from?

Speaker 2 [01:16:45] How do I do identify myself as a Malaysian living in the U.S., right? It's very clear that I work here. I live here. But am I truly assimilated into the American culture? Not really. Right? Plus, my wife is a Malaysian, so makes it a bit difficult now. My wife have been American. That might be a whole different story, but if my wife is my partner is Malaysian, that makes it even harder to be free and fair because we don't get nothing to link us. It's nothing to connect us to the American culture.

Speaker 1 [01:17:12] Do you think the link could be, you know, your experiences? You'll be different in working here. In opening of this, the you think doesn't come as

Speaker 2 [01:17:20] something that accounts for some. That's why. But you get to the aggregate between the two. Right? But if you are married to an American, that's a whole different story because now you get to learn the tradition of other families. But you can be a guest. But there are certain things that happen within families that you don't get to see. So if I marry an American, that would be a whole different story. All together, it's not putting up is a bit different because now they become the breach of you, not just to the American society, but also to American family tradition. We, we at my kids, both myself and my wife, are both Malaysian. We missed out that leg. That could be the missing link. And as I say, you might be better for my son because he grew up here and his friends will all be Americans, and all because he grew up in our culture versus me as an adult. I've had my set mindset, my principles, my character really more or less from not fixed my form. And then now I'm learning something new that something with us is starting something here with us. This is where I grew up. Also makes a big difference.

Speaker 1 [01:18:22] Yeah, I just like to push a little bit like that that you see that as a symbol of the other steps of being you. But I will contest you living here for, I don't know, three years that you are American and by extension, what you do with your principles or values. America.

Speaker 2 [01:18:41] So it really depends, right?

Speaker 1 [01:18:43] Yeah. That you are trying to learn or pick up the other spotlight because you already feel you have lived there. Yet in the comics, right, that whatever you came in with, that becomes a part of the greater culture.

Speaker 2 [01:18:57] Well, it depends. So again, going back to like the culinary, we might be creating something new all together on the one forming a whole new culture. But what makes us American? So then you have to go back to the roof. What is what's American besides the Native American everyday immigrants of different generations? So what makes someone American? Then you figure out the Irish family had their own Italian family. They own the Spanish and everybody is different. So Hispanic person be considered American who grew up here and only knows it. I don't know what makes it American chestnut that goes back to is the past, but let me see American. Is the politics, what makes you Americans? Is the cuisine from East American or the values that you ask, what is the American value? Is not one straight answer. So that's why I wouldn't say I identify as American because I know what is American. I don't think that's a clear answer. Besides living in the country, working here, being the Texas, then I need to understand I still have the grits. What is America? I'm not sure if anybody will be able to define it. You are different American. They have different explanation. Is not right.

Speaker 1 [01:20:14] There is a very good question. I to the French, and I thought, if he does this, just what is America, then? Yeah, the the definition didn't come away. I'm not generally like that, right? That's all. But I think once in there, until that point, they've actually what I thought was, OK, that makes sense, which is that there's the constant questioning of your old self identity, which is quite uniquely American.

Speaker 2 [01:20:41] Probably that that being lost. So I get the feeling of being lost because you're lost because you didn't know the way you were not right.

Unidentified [01:20:50] So you had that.

Speaker 2 [01:20:52] Uh, but then more philosophical. Yes. Yeah. Correct is more philosophical, which is not wrong. You can ask your own question where you're from a another. There's so many things in life because of philosophy. But when someone asked, Are you really American? And I always ask questions. First, you to tell me, What is American?

Speaker 1 [01:21:10] America would not say that. They would say yes, right?

Speaker 2 [01:21:14] But because then they think of my American passport. I remember I. I'm quite an American. So again, go of nationality. Yes, nationality, someone can be considered American. But when you talk about any city culture, are you American? Like, you always tell people, Oh yes, or Asian? We know. We all know what that mean, right?

Means we eat a lot rice. We love carbs. We eat. We are very frugal. But at the debate traditions they are about Oh yes, or American. Some people say, Oh, that that does means to outsiders. You're arrogant, outspoken, your big spenders. But is that really American, though? Is that just a stereotype of the same thing, that being Asian? That's a stereotypical apology, right? But not all Americans at every level spoke about Americans travel. Not a lot of them are actually a lot that introverted, and not all of them are outspoken or like the stereotypical American men that outgoing, you know? Right? So in other identify as American, I think my challenge today for myself personally, because I do understand I can see or define what is American has. I can consider myself American business for my kid. He has no choice. He's born here. He will be that loss that, oh, one is American. He will be that protest or anything. But because I've seen the other side of the world, I seen something else. No, I'm not. Where do I belong? Am I here? And my dad wasn't my kid if he grew up here, spent the rest of his life here. That's not what I think he knows. So he has to in French American, but that I think that if my kid grew up here or under the age of 18, for example, then that he lived in Asia for 20 odd years, what makes what does that make it? Is this Americanized in Asian? I think that Asian thing he did in India. Can you consider if you lived there for 20 years now? I don't know. He could be. Of course, he may embrace the culture, the heritage and all right. But what if he lived in like Brazil? That's not me, Kim, I don't know. So it's kind of a very philosophical question. And what makes you

Speaker 1 [01:23:22] right where you ask people like this, what exactly are Unidentified [01:23:25] you? It's quite difficult, right? Because, you know, somehow you Speaker 1 [01:23:31] know when you see that, but you can't really define them, right?

Speaker 2 [01:23:34] Right? That you feel you, you know, it reads. But as immigrants, because we grew up with a different. So now we had two identities before us was this American only have one to do. And yet if there's only one, but if you give them to another, what are you right? Then it becomes a question of identity, of which is where they can define for you because now they have a choice. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 [01:24:00] Is, you know, I'm going to end by just going back to the question of how I feel about that is the melting pot

Speaker 2 [01:24:12] or the Senate.

Speaker 1 [01:24:14] Do you think there could be a thought that, you know, this is the media or you like Bob and no other candidate? And I upset because in recent years, people who are pushing back against the melting pot? Right, right. Yeah. In part because people feel like

Speaker 2 [01:24:30] blender

Speaker 1 [01:24:31] is blender. And also people realize that what is a it is pretty black. Yeah. Like, if something Koreans, Eugene Kane is huge in America feel like that's the definition of the melting pot theory. But I can somehow discern the statement came from. Right, right. And also, there's some pushback against the fellow voter who I personally assimilated. If everyone is neutral in St. Louis, then there is no assimilation, right? Right. So what's the point of all this? And I want that because I think you have a very unique view of what an old American identity. So yeah, what do you see for people like the future of immigrants and I think they

Speaker 2 [01:25:16] may hate having read some thought is the that is basically something completely different is neither here nor there. You are not Asian, you know, America, you know, white, you become your own identity. That is what I would assume. Eventually in the future would be true, American. You no longer look at race, gender, ethnicity. American is American. Your cuisine is your cuisine. You can have race, but with pasta sauce, that's a sample. You can imagine that because it's beyond our

comprehension. Same thing that anything over the decades you've asked me personally several years ago could just have really no way. I know what the heck it can happen, right? So she wasn't nothing but eventually or what? That became a thing. Right? You're know she nobody should. You wasn't a cuisine back in the olden days. Great Imperial Japan. There wasn't sushi, right? There was noodles at all. It was a new creation, but now identifies with Japanese culture, I believe is something in the future whereby it will become a sport that you can no longer dissect in the future where these influences from. It would have met them by then. That is the future, which is the melting pot, but not right now, but you'll be. It creates its own plan that's unique only to themself that we cannot identify with it. That's my goal or my hope that it becomes that way.

Unidentified [01:26:43] I guess, yeah, this that's a very aggressive you like shooting, raising gender blind. Yeah.

Speaker 2 [01:26:50] Because if you can sue Typekit like myself, because he can tie back to my own culture and not fully assimilate because I can do pick up which part of my southern Asian American, I'm not. But when you have a whole generation that can no longer differentiate, that is when you know you have access.

Speaker 1 [01:27:07] OK, yeah, OK. This is very interesting that your I do think that that, you know, can you they can write about alcohol. Do you think that's a good thing? I believe that the truth about keeping the youth right where you are from. Like, so how do you reconcile?

Speaker 2 [01:27:26] But that's for me, right? That's what my current generation in the future generation for teens to be successful. It has to be that way. You have to create a whole new culture, cuisine and so on. And that themselves will have their own unique representation, their own unique tradition and all in order for things to blend together, I believe, is when you cannot differentiate what is what, that's when you know you have success. Like if you talk about Malaysian cuisine, you can use to pick up which part of it was Chinese influence, which, by the way, Indian influence family. But you can't anymore. But is it true to their own tradition? Yes, like the render, the cooking method is Malay, but distorting and Indian Indian, right? How did that work right now? That is my culture because it became a thing on its own and who started it. When the new generation comes up, that will be they will have their own thing as well. Right? And then they will look at us as different. Then we become a different culture to them. Then they have their own culture. It becomes a whole new ecosystem, a new generation of.

Unidentified [01:28:32] So yeah, I mean, that's. Very interesting, and

Speaker 1 [01:28:40] I I just can't help but like wonder, right, everyone. Or like if people actually feel that way that they want to be lost or like they want to be known, differentiate both on. Look, I don't know if it was an auto sector intelligence, but there is an increasing like desire to trace back their own the right and heritage, right? Like, you know, I don't really know about this basic group of central agents. Yes. Where they they try to cling onto some fragments of what he considered to be like the culture, right? Which is kind of not in your ideal state right there. They have to do kind

Speaker 2 [01:29:23] of because they are still adapting well that you like the first or second or third generation. The grandparents are nice people around the house to like. So you think of any that a pure Chinese Asian tradition. And I use people because the who's strong to me, but you are still very unique that you like the original source of the Chinese.

Then a second generation is like a rich old tradition versus new values. Then that generation is like, All right, what are we but around now? But you go further down the line when the grandparents and all the longer everything gets lost over time in generations.

They are the one that holds onto their own traditions. So think about this like Earth. So we know we are Malaysians. We know we are Singaporean. If we really lost, do we associate ourselves back to the Chinese tradition? We do. But if we go back to China, they said, No, that's not how you do it. But if you love how we accept it as like true Chinese, we really are not because we are really a new generation, we are. In your case, Singaporean make this Malaysian. Can you associate or sell back to China or Chinese traditions? No, not really.

It's different that we create our own thing. Was there a time when people were lost? Probably our parents would have been. The grandparents would have been there. Oh yeah, that just as we to hold on to my family's values. So I foresee that seeing that happen, I foresee that down another few more generations, that will no longer be a thing that will go away. You'll be that, you know, can you restore respect? Definitely. But you wouldn't be lost here is that. That's part of my heritage, but I'm not lost as an individual. I know where I stand, I know where I'm going and where I come from. So you wouldn't be like, you'd be more certain, like what you're saying is people who like who are still figuring out because that's the other thing is to hold them to in the past. But they had nothing in front of that to get that right. So, yeah, I tend to morph over about 10 months to the past, but that's why they're like, they're struggling and my here and my dad and supposed to be here, but not supposed to be dead. But I don't feel it. So I believe in the future, my generation that will go away, they will come to accept. I realize that, yeah, this is my culture dissipating now here in America as an Asian. And then that is my heritage. That's where my family came from. This began, right? I believe that it's more likely to happen idealistic. I see that the only way for things to happen as well, that a whole generation of different necessity will come together and create their own cultural values. And it's one.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 [01:31:58] So we see the only thing that if you want that to happen,

Speaker 2 [01:32:02] but then they want that to happen. I believe that will achieve true harmony.

Unidentified [01:32:14] Let me take a look at some of the questions that have yet.

Speaker 1 [01:32:26] Okay. Yeah, I think you have most of the girls, actually just one last gesture of setting up a new business in the foreign country as an immigrant. Some of the perspective I challenge.

Speaker 2 [01:32:39] So it's definitely challenging because it now got to navigate the rules of law here is different, but that's starting the business anyway, so it's different. And it's also a certain perspective, like with the government regulations, the city inspectors, I thought that stereotypes against us as well like, Oh, you're opening an Asian restaurant, is this you're going to run into just trouble because the others have done this before. So that's the challenges, and that isn't much references that you can go to. There's no one that was you can ask about opening a Malaysian restaurant, cause that's not many. I on the other, what? Who am I going to ask? So you lose on that guidance. Nobody can guide you or give you advice or even sourcing for materials, sourcing for labor and even recipes, right? There's no one you can really reference. So that becomes a bit of challenging as well in

Speaker 1 [01:33:39] terms of you see the inspectors being that or you are running a restaurant and you're going to be

Speaker 2 [01:33:46] like you. So like, we had people ask me, So are you going to be selling you a title? So. Oh yeah, you have to know, is your restaurant? So you're going to make orange chicken and not be a Malaysian? Then you asked or West Malaysian or anything or your teeth are going to be very greasy. You guys aren't not going to clean it at all because of the past experience of other Asian restaurant who has somehow created that impression. Again, it's not accurate, but it's stereotypes, right? Because at one or two. So we accept attention. Like even when you come into an Asian restaurant, that's often expectation, you're going to have round tables, you're going to have a dragon and Phenix on the wall decorations. And I'll be like, Yeah, that's not what we're going for, that Asian restaurants that we. Then they're going to need all these regulations. The city cook for all these hanging decorations. No, no, no. That's not what are doing. Then trying to explain to them our set up and obviously it's a bit more fusion, more new age. But the décor is separate from the cuisine. That's what this downtown right does become. Asian doesn't mean my decorations. Asian doesn't mean my stop Asian and then something they have trouble comprehending that. What do you mean, then? What Mr. Asian? The food, the food is what makes it not the decorations are not right. So it's quite interesting as well.

Speaker 1 [01:35:03] Do you feel like it's a comment if you run into your friends?

Speaker 2 [01:35:07] It's quite common

Speaker 1 [01:35:09] and do what the general response every single time expect,

Speaker 2 [01:35:12] you know? I'll do my time to explain to them because I'm proud of it. I'll explain to them why and. The vision, again, this is not about just making money is the vision I intend to spread our food, our heritage, our culture.

Speaker 1 [01:35:29] Yeah. Have you got any other question? Anything?

Speaker 2 [01:35:33] No, I'm good, thank you for your time. No. What this

Speaker 1 [01:35:37] time? So it's great. You must be very busy running a restaurant and all that, so I really appreciate it. Oh, thank you. Yeah, just a little bit of like logistics and whatnot, you know? So I'm going to take a look at some of the transcript. I'm going to send you a copy of that as well. All right. Let me know is going to play for southern parts of A and then the rest will be should be archived in the first place. OK. The Asian American

Speaker 2 [01:36:03] project.

Speaker 1 [01:36:03] Thanks so. And we all said I would definitely say a link. All right. The site?

Speaker 2 [01:36:08] Thanks. I appreciate it. Yeah, I don't know if you'd buy that. Thanks. And get you any food.

Speaker 1 [01:36:12] Anything at all is OK. You're good. All right. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 [01:36:16] Thank you. Thanks.